Talk:قندره

From WikIraqi

Gilgamesh, where did you get that qundara means bastard or swine? Qundara means shoe and when it's used as an insult, it literally means shoe. Zeyad

The 'insulting' meaning is due to the fact that shoes are dirty and dirt and dirty shoes are regarded something ugly or bad. Let's not forget that you wear off your shoes in front of rooms or mosques.

It may means literally shoe, but in English and most European languages there is no insult like: You're a shoe ! So I thought a long time ago for a translation, not a literally one. It would be something like swine, bastard. Other meanings are welcome, but Zeyad, there is this insulting meaning and in European terms there would be no connection. (In German for example you say: fit wie ein Turnshoe = as fit as a sports shoe). Gilgamesh X

I don't know, Gilgamesh. That would give the impression that qundara literally means 'bastard' or 'swine' in the Iraqi usage. I would vote for removing that reference and saying something like "when used as an insult it means 'you're filthy as a shoe,' or 'you're rotten as a shoe,' instead of adding meaning when there is none just so it fits English European usage standards. Zeyad

I agree with Zeyad, I think we should mention that refering to somone as a shoe is considered an insult in the Iraqi culture, other than that the translation is not correct.--Laith 11:36, 14 February 2007 (CST)

Are you both happy now with the changes ? Let me please know. I'm not really happy for two reasons: origin of the word and further more this second meaning ya qandara literally means shoe but that's especially Iraqi. ON the other hand there is no MSA insult like يا حذاء . I still think that referred to persons it would be right to translate: swine, asshole or bastard. To translate that way is not to please European usage standards but sometimes words are used like a metaphor and this should be mentioned, too (like Boori). Of course, Iraqis aren't aware of the metaphor if they don't have a language to compare with. So, to translate ya qandara into "You're a shoe" wouldn't be just clumsy but wrong because in English, shoe isn't just an insult, it's wrong to use it referring to persons. Other words exist for such situations. (See also Saussure in wikipedia talking about parole).

I will leave this file open (which brings me to the next article). Laith: good job, great work. You started your project some months before I could start my 'dictionary', well done early bird. I hope I can contribute to your German and Spanish wikipedia.